- It's a nice map. Would you replace the bullet point list below that is on the Aya page with clickable links on the map? Or some other way to know the complete list of places that you can go to on Aya? Or would they just be static labels on the map? I think it's important to know all of the locations and that there are pages for each of them. --GS877 (talk) 03:47, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Clickable links is an awesome idea. I think. I don't know how to do it. It should be easy, once I know how it's done, but I don't know yet. Do you? If so, could you explain, or point me at info?
- I may want to sandbox that--it's also possible to do a numbered list, so the map could be static, but numbered, and the linked list would remain. Also, I'd want to do something similar for the other locations, but everything else is so big, except for the Nexus and the Tempest. --Blazedspawn (talk) 16:08, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Eh. I took a quick look. I think the list needs to stay and I can't find a good place for the map close to the list. So clickable links on the map might be good, but it would need to have numbers to match the list, or labels. And since the list is already linked, the map would mostly be to give a visual idea of the layout. Maybe like this: User:Blazedspawn/sandbox#Map --Blazedspawn (talk) 16:22, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Sooooooooo, this is so far out of my wheelhouse. What you have to do is create an imagemap. This is an overlay of the image so that when you hover over a portion of the image, you can click a link. This requires that you know the coordinates of the shapes you want to make. You can only use rectangle, circles, or polygons. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_map - Here is the wiki page on this. The lower version with all of the people is the one I was trying to make.
- It is possible to use gimp to make a map - code for the map in HTML. Here is the video I watched below:
- I was able to get coordinates for the aya image.
- However, I don't know the coding side of things. I've tried using the server side coding and the client side coding from the wiki page. It doesn't work. I don't know what I'm doing wrong or even what I'm doing. :) I've used the example that they have by looking at the coding and everything looks right but for some reason the <imagemap> function isn't working. I tried the <a> version as well. I tried keeping it as HTML text as well.
- I'm not a coder. I understand what the concepts are but writing the code isn't working.
- I have an image. I have to make a map of coordinates for that picture that define the areas I would like to have links for. I need the links I want to use. Once I have all of those items, I can create coding that says where on the image that clicking will redirect me to the correct page.
- It makes perfect sense in my mind, I just know I'm missing something dumb. Closing brackets or some small snippet of code before or after.
- I left the map HTML coding on the bottom of the sandbox page. I tried to make the box around the Aya word link to the Docks page. Just a test and I used a rectangle. Maybe one of the more experienced people with coding can help fix the little thing I'm missing. Once I have a working example, it'll be easy to make the others. :) --GS877 (talk) 18:36, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
I think I found the issue as to why imagemap isn't working.
An extension called "Extension:Imagemap" has to be installed on the wiki.
https://masseffectandromeda.gamepedia.com/Special:Version - If you go to this location, it looks like that extension isn't installed. The code won't work without that.
You can see an example of that extension here.
https://www.mariowiki.com/Special:Version - I find the most random examples with Google. :)
https://www.mariowiki.com/Template:SMWmap -The little map on the right of this page shows this imagemap in use. :) They are using circles but I'm sure we can either put a list of words on the map or something like that and then have GIMP give us the coordinates of the rectangles or whatever shape we choose over the top of those words.
A sentence or something near the map saying that the link has interactive links if you click on a location yada yada...
Can you find out from the higher ups above installing that extension module so that we can use the imagemap function? With that installed I think the maps will work great. :) --GS877 (talk) 21:31, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Side note - It looks like the coding already puts a little blub underneath the picture "Click an area to open the relevant article." I just saw that. --GS877 (talk) 21:35, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
I thought that maybe a see through set of colorized regions would be helpful. This is SUPER rough and only as an example but you could have all 10 regions with a corresponding color and the legend boxes would conform to the map outlines. Using GIMP you can create a polygon of the color shaded areas and the colored legend boxes for the imagemap. That way if you click on the map location and/or the name location you can be redirected to the correct page. The level of transparency and the colors involved would have to be tweaked but is doable. I just copied the pic into excel, drew the boxes, added the text box, and then grouped them all together. I then copied/imported it into GIMP so that I could export the png together. It's low tech but simple. --GS877 (talk) 22:11, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
We can get the extension enabled. I want to take a good look at the work it would require before I ask for that, though. Questions to be answered include, but probably aren't limited to:
- How many maps: Aya, the Nexus, and the Tempest would be pretty straightforward, insofar as image maps can be straightforward. Even Havarl might not be too bad. But the others would be bigger and more complicated, potentially.
- What goes on the maps? Locations, obviously, and links to NPC pages, like the vendors. And since the missions are listed on the location pages, we probably don't need much more. I've done maps for Unearthed and the Roekaar datapads, because those things don't have markers in-game.
- Also, do all the maps have to be the same? Aya is small and clean and has fairly well-defined areas. Sort of. I hadn't realized that part of the Tavetaan actually runs under the marketplace. Also, the little lower level area with the training pit and the quartermaster is not marked as part of the Resistance HQ. Just "Aya." And the Infirmary is tough to mark out as an area because it runs under Evfra's office.
- It would be ok for us to overlap the sections with color shading and boundaries (we would just change the polygon to not overlap for the link coordinates).
- The maps are only missing the regions. That's one big fault of the game. Everything else can be pinged with a navpoint (except the missions we created a map already for because they don't). The one thing I can never find online is where the hell the damn regions are for a planet. That would be the most useful thing to me because it's the one thing that the game doesn't give you other than onscreen text prompts. No even the super cool zoom in maps at other websites with pop up icons give the regions. Just a text overlay of some of them (which isn't helpful).
- https://guides4gamers.com/mass-effect-andromeda/map/kadara/ - Here's one of Kadara.
- A cool overlay would be the one thing that no one else has. Plus interacting links. :) All the cool kids have overlays...
- Quick, where is Hell's Promise on Elaaden...(buzzer sound)...it's in the northwest. But where is the Sea of Ataraxia????? It's in the west, the north, the northwest, and the east side of the map.
- I've included a SUPER crude Kadara overlay (imagine the kadara map underneath it). A better one would use polygons instead of my ellipses. The problem is trying to find exact boundaries. Sometimes pretty close is all you need (or you just don't know). I can give rough approximations based on all of the missions but it can be tweaked. Sometimes you don't get a clear boundary. Charbydis Point is good example. You don't get a clear ping and it's away from a number of the locations. That's sort of a grey area to me. I'd leave it off. Or you could put a text and arrow line to it.
- Let me know what you think. Polygons are good for Gimp for large mission pages like Kadara. It's a bit more work for copying and pasting the coordinates but it can be done. :) --GS877 (talk) 23:47, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
- Two more test images. I don't know if I like transparent for Aya. I made that one first then got rid of it and made the dots thicker. I kinda ran out of colors. :)
I think a note in that section stating that "Aya is three dimensional map. Some areas overlap each other by going under/over each other. Not all area are expressly labeled in-game and this map is a close approximation of the areas that will be encountered."
Yeah, I'm not a big fan of transparent. And I'm wondering if there's a way to avoid adding colors to the appearance, maybe emphasizing borders with darker lines. I don't know. Mousing over to see what the area is called and then clicking on it... This could get way too complicated way too fast. I do like the GIMP filter. I can ask the manager if he'll turn on the extension so we can test stuff. Or I can play with Kadara and see how bad it is. I drove around the other day--Haarfel does some weird thing where it's right outside the slums, but then also on the other side of Varren's Scalp. Or something.
It would be nice to be the cool kids. :-) If being cool isn't too much work. I'm still trying to stick shotgun images in between errands and chores. And sleep. That sleep thing. --Blazedspawn (talk) 01:17, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
- I'm a fan of color coding and a decent legend. This game absolutely SUCKS for a legend. Most of the map symbols don't have names, those that do don't match in game text, etc.
- I like the idea of delineating things but adding a heavy line over an area in the same shade with the same line style, just gives me the same map as I have in-game. If I'm looking to find out what something is, I shouldn't have to hover over it or it defeats the purpose of putting the extra lines. Now I will say that it does make it nice to hover over an area, with the color coding to help me identify that there are different areas. Having the legend be clickable hover as well is also useful. There are only so many colors you can come up with that stand apart from each other.
- I want to know all of the areas on the planet, a pretty good approximation of them, and an easy way to find the page with more detailed info. I did a better job with the coloring and the legend on this version. Colors can change, line style (it's dots at 3pt right), and other things can easily be fixed. I don't know if non-color different line types will show up. You'd have to have much bigger lines and that would overwhelm the map. I have this all in excel so I can quickly make changes and upload them.
- Once we have the image, it's just a matter of tracing over the areas in GIMP for the coordinates. The image will be the trickier part but I think it's totally doable. As long as the base image stays the same, we can change the lines and colors, and everything else.
- We can test and tweak and play a bunch. I think that each planet will have a variation of something we come up with. Havarl will be different than Aya compared to Kadara compared to the Nexus. As long as the image and the links perform the function of helping someone find the info I think it is a good function. :) --GS877 (talk) 02:54, 8 September 2018 (UTC)
Code copied from way way back from the sandbox - haven't checked it yet though.
The text for the imagemap once the module is in place.
I had to pull all of the brackets and turn it back into pipes only. The only portion that works on the example above is the "Aya" in the rounded rectangle.
I can confirm that if you change the px from 400 to 600 or even 800, the coding changes sizes as well for the rounded box. NICE!
I don't know why but for some reason this function isn't closing when you use thumb. It is allowing the link to "leak" below the coding onto all of text below. This means I can't get the text to display below the picture automatically. I've tried and checked the coding an everything looks right.
<img src="Aya_Map_draft.png" width="1365" height="849" border="0" usemap="#map" /> <map name="map"> <area shape="rect" coords="556,682,1032,802" href="https://masseffectandromeda.gamepedia.com/Docks" /> </map>
Setting up Aya Test 6 - Getting coordinates now.
Click an area to open the location page.
So the coordinates work. It's a little bit annoying that GIMP adds commas between the numbers that you have to delete but it does give them to you. As you can see, the polygons can add a lot of numbers but once you have them, it's pretty easy to set up.
I stopped as creating the polygons takes a long time to do and setup for all of the remaining items. Once we decide on the pic, the line styles, colors, etc, then I can create the image maps once the final picture is ready. The main thing is that we don't change the overall size. We pick the pic and then that's the size (otherwise the coordinates get off). :)
- Very nice! I've been putting some work into the Tempest map. That, Aya, and the Nexus/Hyperion are all fairly small maps, so they might want a similar style. Blazedspawn (talk) 22:25, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- I reread my text above and it could have led to confusion. Let me clarify, there is no reason for each map image to be the same size. We can change the overall size to match whatever we need, we just have to decide what that is for each situation. Once we do that, mark it all up, and add text, that is the final version of that specific map pic. If we change the size of it after making coordinates, we have to start the coord process all over. Hopefully I didn't confuse you. :) GS877 (talk) 22:35, 13 October 2018 (UTC)
- I don't think so. What I meant is that those three maps are similar in scope, as opposed to maps of planets. They certainly don't have to be the same size. Also, the Tempest will probably have three maps, one for each deck. Aya is a single map--the different levels don't overlap functionally, or don't have to--you might not even realize they overlap unless you look over the railing into the Tavetaan. :-) I'm not sure how many maps the Nexus should be broken into--I guess that's part of the process. I'll make some images and we can look at them. The Hyperion/Port Meridian might be different as well. The basic maps are the same, but the uses and what's available differ from Hyperion to Port Meridian, notably the loss of access to the Cryo Bay.
I think your exising pic of Port meridian looks great. I wouldn't change anything layout wise. I think the setup looks great. You may wish to add or remove icons but I think the map has everything.
I think how they set up the nexus / hyperion looks pretty good on the website below but I would have each "area" as a map.
I would make the following maps:
- Cryo Bay
- Port Meridian
- Operations - The three pics like they have of Operations / Pathfinder HQ / Colonial Affairs but they aren't named that way in game when you walk into them. The colonial affairs spot pings as Addison's office when you walk into that area. Pathfinder HQ is the upper section whereas Tann's Office is the lower section. Operations splits up into colonial affairs, Militia Office and Operations proper. Color coded areas / lines to show where stuff is like the Aya map.
- Common Area - I'd use the two map pics they have but use color coded areas/lines to show where stuff is.
Near each spot on the applicable map, I'd use the Travel To Icon and then list the locations it connects to by the tram. Say "Tram" and then the actual areas it connects to. I wouldn't match in game because it gets confusing for docking bay/common area. There is a note already on that page about the issue. I would sup to that note so that someone isn't confused.
So for example the Common Area Tram would be:
Example with the name fix and sup.
We could then have each of those with a reactangle link box so that if you click on them you go to the page. Imagemap! :)
- Side Note - I can also throw a box/circle around each vendor so that you direct link to their page. :) GS877 (talk) 01:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- Good thoughts. I like linking the vendors, too.
- Just noticing that the squad members have fixed locations in Port Meridian, which makes ally markers for them useful. I think that's also true on Aya--I think Vetra moves around the Market, but she's always there. Likewise Peebee moving around the Repository. The other four stay put. I'm not certain about their locations on the Nexus--I know Peebee turns up in the Tech Labs at some point, at least sometimes, but I can't remember exactly when. Probably after Meridian.
Testing a side by side image set potentially for the Tempest.
NOTE! That first | on the first image or imagemap is critical when trying to put multiple items inline. The others don't need it. Otherwise you get image1 on the left, and then the next line has images 2 & 3 inline. Just found this out and I want to document it here so I don't go crazy trying to figure it out again.
I like these maps without the outline. I know, I know, Mr. Outline don't like the outline. :) They look cleaner and better in this case.
I really like the point of interest symbols you used. That makes it super nice to know there are different areas. I can easily break these maps up into chunks for the areas centered around those points. I don't like the red coloring of the travel to symbol / facial recon suite. I don't think those should be there. I do think the white galaxy map should be there though.
The galaxy map is a huge part of the game. The facial recon suite is less so. That's more of a vanity thing. Look at my pretty Ryder. He is so nice with his long pink hair. Yes, I said HE. HE is a manly man with pink hair. :)
Can you pull the facial reconstruction suite text from the "non-outline" Deck 3 picture? I can then shrink it down some width wise. Plus you removed the icon already so technically it's not on the map.
Is the green ally icon SAM? If so, should Suvi and Kallo get ones on the bridge as well? They never move. All of the others move around like you've said in the past.
I'm on the fence on the ally icon though. I want to say it almost looks cleaner and better without it there. Maybe with both Suvi and Kallo it would be better. I'm uncertain on this. It seems to me like these are more location maps with major stuff vs. every tiny detail.
Please take no offense to my mind writing stuff down. I'm not criticizing your work in any way. I'm looking at these in a logical way and that can seem to others as harsh or uncaring. It's not by any means. Internal dialogue given life on the printed page (electronic page). I'm also looking at it with the artist brain seeing if I "like" it or if it "offends" the eye. Mixing the two to see if it is "practical".
You are free to hop in, say what ever you like, and I'll totally see if I can "see" what you see. I like the collaboration. :) I wouldn't have thought of the POI's like you did for these maps. Those I think work very well. :) GS877 (talk) 19:22, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- The outline was more to indicate the shapes for making the image map.
- I can definitely pull any text. And of course pink hair is manly. Also magenta tattoos, which you can't see clearly, but is definitely there. It matches the jacket. I know, his hair is auburn or something, not pink. Another time. :-)
- This is the place for musing about the mapping. :-) Also, GIMP layers are a thing, and I don't usually flatten things before I export to png.
- I just put your POI marker over the existing ones. When I do screenshots for maps, I take one with all the UI stuff--the map markers, labels, etc. Then I set ui.drawenable to "0" and take another screenshot. That way I have a clean, or easily cleanable, image without clutter, but I have an image to show me where the clutter I want goes.
- I think leaving off the ally marker for SAM works. Likewise the vidcon and facial recon suite. (I notice that the skills respect isn't marked at all.) Cause, yeah, all that information is on the location page that the map links to. I wonder if the galaxy map marker should go to the Galaxy Map page? Which I can finish this week sometime, I think. (She says without consulting her calendar.)
- I've got to go out for a couple of hours, so it'll be a bit before I can get the revised images up. Blazedspawn (talk) 22:14, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
- I uploaded a new version of Tempest Deck 3, without the Facial Reconstruction Suite. (The Respec Station doesn't have a point of interest marker, but it is listed when you hover over Medbay on the game map.)
- Thinking on keyboard here--the map should look pretty much the way it does in the game. If you hover over a POI in game, it shows you the name of the space and whatever it thinks is interesting:
The imagemap means you can hover over the area and not just the POI marker, and get more information, and a link to the page with all the information. So there's no reason to clutter the image with details, either in text or icons. Ah. A thought. I'll be back. Blazedspawn (talk) 01:45, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I'd have to see the map with the extra stuff. The hard part is that the in game mapping function sucks at times. I think you have an excellent layout of the Tempest with the POI markers. I think it might get tough with the extra items for places like Pathfinder's Quarters which has like 6 things in it. Because the location page already lists all of the items, I'm unsure on the extra blue text. I'd almost put those item in light blue under the white text on the legend side.
-Cotton Candy Machine
-That Experiment thing
- There is plenty of black space going vertical on that side of the map image so I don't see that as an issue. We'd just have to try and see what it looks like. It might be really good, or might be super busy.
- I look at this as a way for us to make the map better than what they did within the confines of what we can do with wiki software. Something I can compare my in game map against and a place to document findings. GS877 (talk) 05:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
All the blue can make it hard to tell one space from the next. For the three apartments on the right (Kesh's, Jien Garson's, and Spender's), I decreased brightness and increased contrast on the interior. It should make it easier to tell one space from the next in those places where it's an issue. Of course, it's also possible I need more coffee. Blazedspawn (talk) 02:13, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- I think the blue's you came up with work well. They didn't give this an area name other than "Common Area" but it is nice to see some of the inside details. :) GS877 (talk) 05:10, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- Thanks. I was thinking you could hover over one of the apartments and it could say "Peebee's Apartment" and maybe link to the relevant mission. Or not, if that gets too complicated. Oh, by the way, did you know you can stand on both the Strike Team mission console in the militia office and the AVP console in Addison's office? Also the big round table in Pathfinder Hall, but not the Planetary Holo. That's too high. Oh, right. Where I was going with that. I don't know if it needs a POI marker, but you can see the round shape of the militia office STC, so you could hover over that... let me know if I'm getting too ambitious. Blazedspawn (talk) 07:03, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
- This is a complicated answer. Based on my limited knowledge, it's not possible to use hover display inside an imagemap. Inside of a <gallery>, you can choose mode=packed-hover and then text will display when you hover over the spot. This is different than the hover where you can see the hyperlink when you hover over the spot on an imagemap or a hyperlink in an article. You can't add a packed-hover extended syntax inside of an imagemap. I researched this for awhile and there are very complicated ways to code this into things but it's not a standard thing. By complex, I mean writing custom code.
- There is something else where you can use a pipe after a link to change what displays. So [[Docks|Big Rubber Chicken]] on screen in an article will display as "Big Rubber Chicken" instead of "Docks". Inside of an imagemap if you try this, it doesn't do anything. It still displays "Docks" no matter what you put after the pipe.
- I can totally put a box around each apartment and link to the mission involved. Because we didn't create a location page for these places, we can only link to the mission page for it to make sense. I don't think there should be a location page for these as a) it doesn't ping when you walk into it and b) it's only used for one mission and then they get locked off forever.
- However, only the mission will show up when you hover. Peebee's Apartment will display "Peebee: Secret Project". Which I'm ok with. It's really the only time you'll ever go there.
- I think that putting the name over each of the apartments makes the most sense like you did for the Meridian page like "Ryder's Room". Peebee's apartment, Spender's Apartment, Ron Land's Apartment, etc
- Side note - It might be possible to make the hover change but it's way beyond my skill level. Things get tough inside of <imagemap></imagemap> because you can normally do extended syntax inside of tags but imagemap doesn't do that. It's pretty limited. Or I just can't find what you can do on the internet. :) If it's not on the wiki help pages, then someone didn't write it usually. I found an advanced question asking for help with this very question and they said it's custom CSS code. They didn't list an easy answer.
- Actually, you can go back into Peebee's place and Jien Garson's place. There's just no reason to do so. The hidden room in Jien Garson's apartment is closed and doesn't even scan anymore. And there's no way into the locked room in Peebee's place. Could there be such a thing as so much mess that even Peebee is embarrassed? :-)
- Text label on the apartments: "Peebee's apartment," etc. Link to mission page, so hovering shows the mission name. That seems about right. Text label on the Tech Lab and Cultural Center, with links to the proper pages, hover shows the name of those pages.
- Lower level: Hydroponics, The Vortex, all the merchants, the Cultural Center lower entrance. All link to pages. Label Immigration, maybe link to Contagion?
- Something I've never been clear on: is Hydroponics on both levels? It seems like it ought to be, with trees being what they are (tall).
I did this quick mockup. This isn't my game map picture and I take no credit for it (thank you guides4gamers). We will be deleting it when this discussion is done. I'm just using it as a backdrop to highlight the areas as I set them up for missions based on the sparse info and how it pings on screen.
The docking area / Common area isn't always the easiest line in the middle of the map. Doesn't much matter as there are no missions there besides Nexus reunion (which is when it is all locked off anyways so it's common area). I'll split it in half for an image map. :)
Immigration area is in the docking area. That one I do know I've seen crossing into that area to talk to the turian for Contaigon.
Hydroponics is on both levels. Task: Broken Wires pings for Shapiro upstairs (I think that was the mission but I know there is one where you talk to the guy next to the box. But neither here nor there)
I'll put up the upper level next. :)
I put all 6 apts on the areas with the contracted names (not named well, just as an example). I know you'll name them well with the blue text for the overlays.
The common area / hydroponics isn't the clearest line but it's clear when you run up the stairs and talk to Shapiro, that area is hydroponics. When you run south into the apts it's the common area. North of the hydroponics area goes back to common area until you enter either the tech lab or the cultural center. This is how I have all of the missions set up. There isn't much in hydroponics upstairs so I would split the difference in both spots on an imagemap. :)
You could put a nice POIs in all of the areas.
I can easily add circles around the merchants so that can be set up well. Can you add a Travel To symbol for the Tram? I'm assuming tempest symbol for the exit. I can also link this to the tempest. :) GS877 (talk) 00:02, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
I took your Tempest idea and applied it to the upper level with POIs. I don't want to lose the detail of the inside of the apartments that you went to all of the trouble to capture. The symbols were placed so that they covered up as little as possible in the apartments. (It's not very good so you can change the POIs to where you think they work best on the whole map). I split the list to the left and right because the main locations have real pages and should be prominently displayed like all of the other pages. The left apartments are going to be mission links and is really just for us to display what they didn't do on the map well. I didn't want to clog up the list on the right.
I POI'd this map like the upper level. I think it works very well.
I'd remove the merchants because of the note I'd add below the maps:
"Hover over a map icon or an area for links to appropriate pages." (or something like that)
I think it bloats the list to have the merchants. I'd only have the locations for the list but I would add a tram list with locations it connects to.
I'd add a POI for common area so it points to that page (plus the area around there is "common area")
I'd pull the tempest for the same reason as the merchants.
I wasn't sure about the POI floating out to the left. Was that the vortex?
I wouldn't have immigration because it's not a pinging map area and it's really only for one mission that you go over there. It's not inside a room like an apartment. It's the docking area on the whole right of the map which lists the Contagion mission.
I would try to place the white wording in places that make sense without making the maps over "wide". You could potentially put the common area maps side by side on the nexus page to show the common area. I'd put operations on the next "line" because it's going to be wide with the 3 pieces / subareas.
That's all my thoughts. :) Proceed to throw napalm on them. :)
And as a side note - I REALLY hate that text function in GIMP. I get why they have it as another layer so you can do stuff with it but let me choose to make it another layer. Don't make it that way by default. It sucks. Layers have a place, but that text thing just makes it unwieldy. Trying to move the boxes is annoying as well. Just dumb. Make it like excel. pick it up and move it. Nope, gotta use this dumb alt key thing AND the layer has to be selected in blue not grey. Just the worst. Calm thoughts, calm thoughts, calm breaking stuff thoughts... :) GS877 (talk) 17:51, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- Upper level: makes sense.
- Lower level: Also makes sense. Yes, the marker to the left is the Vortex. Maybe the POI marker should go in the Vortex vestibule. I should probably move the Cultural Center marker inside the CC, but at that end, rather than in the middle, since it won't be labeled as entrance.
- I keep wanting to take the tram interface and use it for a main Nexus map, but the Hyperion image doesn't have a clear delineation between the habitation deck and the cryo bay. Makes me sad. Blazedspawn (talk) 18:17, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- I updated the lower level map, replacing the file, so it's where the previous version was. I can shift the righthand set of letters to the left, snugged in closer to the map. I still need to do that slow walk video to see if I can figure out where the boundaries are between Common Area, Docking Area, and Hydroponics. Blazedspawn (talk) 21:42, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- I moved the tram text a bit. I think maybe a bit larger point size and a bit of space between so that it gives a larger area to click on (for the imagemap). I spaced out the right side because it gives more real estate to put a box around for clicking. Not a lot, just a little bit. I noticed this when I tried to hover my mouse over it and it seemed kind of small height wise (kinda vertically squished). We can try different spacing amounts to see which one works best. :) Too far apart looks like extra black space, too close seemed squished. Somewhere in there is a goldielocks. :) I moved the tram symbol a little bit so it was on the edge of the map but that's just a vanity thing. I kinda like it better there but that's just me. Let me know what you think.
- Moving the tram station marker makes sense. It always annoys me to see things floating in space when they aren't really. How's the sizing and spacing on the lists?
- Oh that is cleaver as all get out. You can make all the text you want!
- Side note - Do you have a high resolution grab of the nexus tram picture you mentioned before? I want to see if maybe we can do something with that. Maybe it ends up being nothing but a tram section for the nexus but maybe, just maybe, we can use it for more.
- Here's one cropped to the relevant section:
- It was such a nice pic, I made a section on the Nexus page. :) I updated each of the four locations with links and standardized them. We can totally put a small gallery in that section with close up pics you create. Good job with the pic above and thanks for the info on the pic not changing.
- I think that is so lazy on their part. How hard would it have been to make a unique one for each tram station? WAIT! That cut into time for blue alien sexy time. So nope, no pictures for tram stations. :)
- The "Docking Bay" naming mistake is dumb and why is it just floating out in nowhere land? The other ones are at least on a ship or station. That's just stupid.
Actually, a single image for the tram station makes sense, since it's inside the car--go and look at the line maps in a subway car--it's the same in every car. Now, they could have done something unique for the specific stations--Park Street Under is immediately obvious because it's got... wait, that was 30 years ago. Never mind. But there's always something in a station to make it different, even if it's just tile letters with the name. Maybe they figured that would come later. Some bored kid with a spray can or some committee with nothing else to do.
Anyway, from the image above you can see that neither the Docking Area nor the Habitation Deck is marked on the image. The interaction circles are actually in front of the wall, not on it. One thing you can give them is that the Docking Area circle isn't over the Common Area mark. And the Habitation Deck circle isn't exactly over the Bridge mark. It would have been nice if they'd paid more attention to that. Just think about the additional thousand jobs for coders they could have created!
- You know, videogames save lives. There should be a grant or something for videogame design. Blazedspawn (talk) 04:21, 18 October 2018 (UTC)
(Moved from up above to this section)
For the operations area, the colonial affairs / Addison's Office is a pain in the butt. The lower area pings totally for colonial affairs and depending upon how fast someone run through the area, Addison's pings. The upstairs is totally Addison's office. That middle area I've called Addison's because that's what is usually pinging. When you go down the stairs then it's back to colonial affairs. It's just not a great area. Tann's office is on the lowest portion of Pathfinder HQ. That totally pings. Pathfinder HQ doesn't ping but they labeled it that as that, it's mentioned in multiple paces including a codex. I called everything above the lower section up that first set of stairs as Pathfinder HQ. The other areas are pretty clear cut. :)
I haven't go through the mission sections yet for this area but I will be next. The locations I'm good with, I'm just making sure everything is documented the correct way like all of the other location pages. GS877 (talk) 00:46, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
- I'll video a slow walk through Ops and the Common Area/Docking Bay and see if I can get what pings where. Blazedspawn (talk) 01:04, 16 October 2018 (UTC)
(Moved from main discussion page. Was called Quick One - Militia Office.) Hey Blazedspawn,
You have great pics of the left and the right side of the Militia Office. Could you get a wider shot or from an angle from the Ops steps that show the area on the right side? That way it shows the area that both the left and right sides are found in vs. the close up pics (which look great in the gallery section btw).
I saw this pic and I follow where you are going on this one. I have trouble with the "Ops, unspecified" spot. Not with you or your map, just the really crappy map design they went with. :)
I'll uploaded a modified pic with some stuff I've researched. To me, when you enter any area you should get the ping for the area. When you leave and go back out, it should ping again. That left hand side Ops unspec is just horrible.
So when you walk into the Militia Office (Red Arrow) by crossing the green line - You get the ping for Militia Office. However, when you turn around and walk back out (Light Blue Arrow), it doesn't ping as Operations. Which you just walked across the green line, it has to be that. Stupid map function.
I've seen a few vids where someone walks behind the big console in the Ops, unspecified area (first pink arrow crossing the green line) and nothing - no ping for Operations. Only once have I seen someone walk around the console (second pink arrow) and cross that angled green line (that angled green line pings as Operations when you cross it). Usually people just turn around and go back into the militia office and don't take the second pink arrow path. I've also seen people walk the yellow arrow path and cross the green line and it pings as Militia Office.
I had called that area Militia office because most times I've seen someone go in through the red arrow then first pink arrow (for station sabotage) so it made sense Ops unspec was Militia Office on the left because there were no ops pings. Hardly no one takes the yellow arrow path (I really had to dig deep for a vid of that). They did a BAD job in that area for mapping. I think only station sabotage is in that back corner and there are no other missions in the Ops unspec area. People normally run off the tram and take the first pink arrow cause it's easiest and then turn around to go to the other spots.
I very much dislike the "Only 1 direction pings the area". It visually looks like that area should be a part of the militia office.
Which ever way we go, I can fix the missions that are located in that area. (I'll review all of them to make sure I'm not missing one).
- I think Ziva just took a walk around and got "Militia Office" for both Kandros' space and the connected space (which I labeled Ops Unspecified. :-) ) The area across the way, with the Security Footage terminal, pings as Operations. The area with the cells doesn't ping at all. I sort of wish it all pinged as Militia Office. But if the cells and security footage pinged as Militia, it would suggest that the Nexus is under martial law, which is probably not what they want to do, even though the militia is clearly doubling as civilian police.
- Okay. The two spaces on Kandros' side ping as Militia Office. The cells don't ping at all, but the security footage area pings as Operations. I'd call the cells Operations, too, except that Task: Path of a Hero calls them militia cells. Argh. So three of those four spaces are militia office and the fourth is operations. Does that help? --Blazedspawn (talk) 04:01, 24 October 2018 (UTC)
- "No it's cool, the map function no one is going to look at" - BioWare. THANKS BIOWARE! :)
- I updated your pic. I do know that I've always seen the left side of the pic on the stairs (orange line) as the place that pings as operations when you walk from Colonial Affairs. That's the left purple arrow. I've also see the right side orange line and second purple arrow ping as operations. Which the right side is dumb because you are still in operations. No need to re-ping it. :) Just like they re-ping you for operations when you cross the green line into the Security Cam area (third purple Arrow).
- I've always called the militia cells section "Operations" because when you enter the area (first people arrow) it pings as Operations. You can follow the orange arrow into the Cells but it doesn't ping so I've always considered it by default "Operations" (because the don't re-ping it as anything else).
- I wish they would have ping'd it as Operations or even like you said "Militia Cells" or heck, The Brig. EVERY ship has a brig. Because they didn't give it a name, I'd by default leave it as the Operations because you walk into the area as Operations and nothing changes it to something else. It's different than a wide open planet because there are large gaps between named areas. This is a small defined place compared to a planet so the area overall is Operations, but some sections have distinct names.
- It makes it clean so that one side is Operations and one side is militia office (Even if BioWare couldn't get it right). Do you buy what I'm selling? Have I convinced you? :)
I think we sorted out the right side with the militia office and the operations part pretty well above. :)
I saw you had updated Task: Getting to Know the Nexus with Colonial Affairs. Good catch by the way. I messed that up. You have the correct area and I put Tann's office instead. I must have grabbed a vid for review that had Ryder talking to him in his office. I went back more carefully and found several more vids and you are totally right that it pings in that lower area of what I have been calling Addison's office. I very much dislike this area of the Nexus. The lower level, mid level, and then the upper level. I'll list off the easier areas first and then dive into the hard ones. :)
- Kesh's Office - No brainer. When you walk through the door the area ping's easily. It's contained and you know where it is.
- Tann's Office totally pings when you walk through the door (green arrow). HOWEVER, it gets tricky because where do you say the "pathfinder HQ" starts and the office ends. Pathfinder HQ doesn't ping. It's on the doorway outside, it's a codex entry, but alas no ping. I've always considered that the orange line where the first set of steps going upwards as the dividing line. That lower landing has a couch and a datapad and Sellers who is looking for the pathfinder. I've considered that pathfinder HQ at that point. Tann doesn't have a lounge area. :) Everything past that line upstairs is pathfinder HQ easily. There is an interesting thing where if you talk to Tann upstairs way over at that tiny desk in the corner it will again ping for tann's office but to me it's almost like it is vertically above the other area where his normal office is and it seems like it is pinging for downstairs. No sense in trying to make it all complicated and saying he gets two offices. No two office for you! :)
- Colonial affairs - This is just a problem area. The dividing line between operations on the right and colonial affairs on the left is that orange line. The purple arrows in and out are travel back and forth. I know it totally pings as operations when you enter ops, I know it totally pings as colonial affairs when you cross from ops into CA. HOWEVER, depending upon how fast you run, and if you run right to where the info wall is (where Addison's office is directly above you), sometimes it pings as Addison's office. That lower area is totally colonial affairs. I know if you go to the left (bottom red arrow) past where Raj patil is messing with the electrics, it's colonial affairs. I know that if you head right (upper red arrow) you go past Liev who's being accused of station sabotage (or one of those missions). As long as you don't haul butt through the area it pings as colonial affairs. Trouble shows up where the orange lines and red arrows interact. I've always considered that the whole lower portion as colonial affairs - both left and right up to the doors for tann's and Kesh's Office. The orange line where the stairs are at I called the dividing line to Addison's office.
- Addison's office - Once you cross that orange line, the middle area (up the first set of stairs from either side where you can look out at the nexus) with the straight yellow area has always been Addison's office to me. I've watched a lot of vids of many missions and from enough times of watching, I've seen it ping as this when you enter the area by the stairs. It's tough though because like the operations side, depending upon how fast you run, where exactly you run in from, etc this might ping colonial affairs. The upper section was always Addison's office no matter which of the curved yellow areas that you took up to there. To me this is very much her "office". I think that vertically right below this area it pings in colonial affairs because they couldn't make 3-d coding areas. it's a map overlay and just like tann's office it will incorrectly ping downstairs (where as tann's pings upstairs).
The trouble is that I watch so many different pieces and parts from so many timeframes for different missions that I have to be careful about this area. I've set up all of the mission pages as the middle level being Addison's office, the lower level as colonial affairs, and the upper level as Addison's. This can easily be fixed on the mission pages as they are all set up with all of the missions that happen in this area. This could do with a good slow walkthrough of the area from multiple directions to see when and where that "orange line" really is. I have a very sneaky suspicion that it's like Ops - it pings going in - sometimes on the way out depending upon how far you walk - and the speed that you are going.
I don't trust that just my version on my console is the "right one". That's why I use other people as a reference. I know if I see something done by 5 people on 5 different types of platforms - I can trust that is what the game was designed to do. I can only be one data point and even if I replay it, I'm still only the Xbox and my point of reference. Plus I can slow down to frame by frame on the video to watch / see stuff that comes and goes. :)
Let me know what you think about the items above and we can sort out the Addison's office/colonial affairs stuff. I'll leave the Task: GTKTN text loc alone for the moment as we haven't figured that out yet and it isn't hurting anything. There are clear navpoints for stuff and the area is easy to find. It's just about us trying to figure out exactly how BioWare designed the area and how we want to classify it so we can put it on the correct location pages for missions. :) --GS877 (talk) 18:35, 3 November 2018 (UTC)
Text and Formatting
So I can't get GIMP to match your font from the Meridian picture. I have it selected as "Sans" but it isn't like yours. I've included a pic below. I copied some text from your Meridian Map for "Ryder's Room". I was playing around with stuff so you'll see multiple things on this picture.
- That would be because I copied and pasted from screenshots. :-) Blazedspawn (talk) 22:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)
Second question, did you put the blue text on a black background and then use the fuzzy select, and then shrink to add a 1px black outline around the text? Or did you do something so that the text is automatically outlined with a black outline?
The text looks better with that outline. Makes it pop on the Meridian page on the light blue map portions. Side note - The inside of the letters like the O's and the R need the black outline. I did that to my Ryder's room just to see if I could do it.
BTW, I hate this text tool. It is just absolutely stupid. Select this layer, go back to that layer. Go back to this spot. Just give one frickin layer like excel. I keep having to bounce around. As I can't get my font to match, no TEXT FOR ME!!! :)
- The black outline is indeed from fuzzy select and shrink. And it does look better if the centers have that as well. Blazedspawn (talk) 22:55, 15 October 2018 (UTC)